Sampson and Delilah go to daycare twice a week for half days. They don’t do a lot at daycare, they like to lie around and sleep (much like they do at home) and occasionally they get up and play with the other dogs or interact with Sara or her mom, Sue.
Hubby and I know this, which is why we dropped them to half days. I feel that even though they lie around much of the day they are stimulated more by the comings and goings at The Mellow Mutt then they would be by sleeping their day away on our couch.
I’m not sure if I’ve ever mentioned this here, but Delilah has issues with dogs behind fences. In the case of daycare it is dogs in crates or dogs on the other side of certain gates.
The Mellow Mutt is set up as such:
(I hope you can get the idea from this ‘drawing’.)
The drawing is not to scale, so along the right wall of where it says “fenced area” there are crates. These are mostly used for the grooming dogs but sometimes someone needs a time out or certain dogs just like to sleep there.
When I drop Delilah off I have to make certain there are no dogs in the fenced area or in a crate with the door shut, if there are she will charge up to the crated dog, and bark like a lunatic, baring her teeth and snarling. To say this is disturbing to me is an understatement. To manage this I just make sure that she remains on leash and is guided through to where she needs to be.
Lately she has continued this behavior at the gate. Which brings us up to Friday.
When I picked them up on Friday a man was coming in with his big yellow lab, Tyson. Dianne (one of the groomers) had to hold Delilah back as Tyson went through the fence, once he was through she was fine. Sara clipped her on leash and handed her out to me. I keep her on a fairly short leash in the retail area because she likes to shoplift shop.
Typically I’ll stand there chatting for a few minutes before I leave, which is what I did on Friday.
While I was standing there, Tyson came up to the gate and Delilah charged him. I was so caught off-guard that I reacted poorly. I yanked her and I pushed her down and told her NO! ( I’m not proud of this, but if I’m to help her overcome her issues I need to be honest with myself and with you on how I handled this.) We left almost immediately after.
Yesterday while working the Labs 4 Rescue adoption event, I had the opportunity to really sit down with Sara and discuss Delilah. I found out that when Delilah went at Tyson on Friday, she actually bit him through the gate. Sara said he had a puncture in his lip and two teeth scratches on his face.
I feel horrible. I offered to pay for any vet bill but Sara says the owner was ok with it. Really? (I wouldn’t be, but that is a topic for a different post.)
I told Sara that I don’t think me pushing Delilah down is the proper way to deal with this issue and I don’t believe it helps Delilah with whatever is bothering/scaring her about the fence/gate.
Since Delilah is like the biggest Alpha female I’ve ever heard/seen, Sara thinks she is disciplining the other dogs at the gate. Sara thinks that Delilah thinks she owns the place and it is her responsibility to monitor it.
We decided it’s in Delilah’s best interest to not go to daycare for a week or so and see if that doesn’t help alleviate the issue. I’m not really sure a break will work but I’m willing to give it a shot.
I’m anxious to hear what you think about this? Have you heard of dogs with this issue? Have you heard of any solutions that work?
I have no problem keeping Delilah permanently out of daycare, but I know Sampson enjoys going and once again it would be Sampson who misses out on something he enjoys because I just can’t get a handle on Delilah.
Whadda ya say, Blogville? How would you help this dog?
I would say that Delilah is being protective of the space. She may think it is hers. That can be Chessie behavior, as many tend to want to guard spaces that they perceive are their own. It is hard to give advice for something like this over the internet, but I would say that it may not be a good idea to send Delilah to day care. Not all dogs can be pals or play nice in a group. Having Chessie’s we accept this and are OK with it. It may be the case for Delilah too, (time will tell). But if Delilah can’t go, maybe Sampson can still go if he enjoys it. Maybe you can do more on lead obedience classes in that facility with Delilah, (if it is offered). It may give Delilah some structure and guidance for the proper way to act around other dogs when she is there. And don’t beat yourself up about how you handled it. I don’t think your reaction was unreasonable. 🙂
I would personally not take your dogs to daycare. 1) It doesn’t seem like they care either way. You money would be better spent elsewhere. I recommend 1-2 5 to 10 minute training sessions with them during the week instead. That will be plenty “stimulating” enough. 2) daycare is clearly fueling unwanted behavior.
Day care could be stressing your dog out so that whenever she sees another dog, bad associations have built up and she doesn’t want to be around. What you described are distance INCREASING behaviors – she does NOT want to be near that stimulus – so why make her put up with it? Not everyone’s dog needs, or should be expected to be, a social butterfly (people definitely aren’t!). Training with you will be more valuable to both of you in the long run. Day care is not a substitution for structure and a relationship with you. I recommend finding a positive reinforcement trainer in your area so you can start some basic obedience. 🙂 Feel free to message me if you have any particular questions.
Jodi does put a lot of time and training into her dogs daily even… I highly doubt she is using it as sub for quality time with her… she is stepping beyond most people who just leave their dogs home all week.
I have worked/run a daycare that specifically worked on training issues while they were with us… as well as structured playtime with the appropriate matches. It was a very structured, clean, and organized outlet for the clients that came. And we would not let anyone come in who was overdue for shots either, our computer system notified us and everyone knew that was our policy. So please don’t write off all daycares, some do benefit dogs greatly when run properly, and when people have a clue about dog behavior.
I did not mean to spark an argument, simply offering my advice. I do not know Jodi, but she DID ask EVERYONE’s for advice, so that’s what I did. Most daycares are not educated on behavior. Please do not start an argument.
I must add that the alpha/dominance theory is outdated. I too used to believe this, but recent 21 century data has proven otherwise. It seems to me that Delilah just does not want to be there, she wants the other dogs to go away, so please don’t make her go there anymore. This behavior will only intensify if you continue to make her go there.
So you may not know it but Luna is rather (with a touch of insecurity thrown in) dominant as well… only with dogs not people at all. It is something her and I really have worked on, and honestly it is one of the areas that I have had to be a bit stronger in my handling with her as it was such a thing for her. This is just how I chose to do it with Luna, and honestly it has worked out very well. I know my dog, and I know her limits and her quirks. It was my responsibility to keep her safe so it was something I couldn’t just ignore, and she is quite the tuff girl when she chooses to be (darn grandma’s gene’s).
She now trusts me to control every dog I put her around and thus far I have. When it takes a little longer to get the other dog under control she has learned to become much more tolerant than she would have been in the past. I now can walk her with any of the dogs I have in training in a matter of minutes and she trusts me to control them and doesn’t have to worry about those dogs. This has really helped drive the message home of me being her protector and leader, not the other way around.
IMO D. probably does feel the need to protect the area, and if you are not stepping up as someone worthy of protecting the area then she feels she has to. This transfers to correcting dogs too that she feels are “off.” Trust me, Luna is much the same way, and sometimes there are still tense moments but she has become much more neutral on leash for me as she trusts me to control things. Not sure if this makes sense, hopefully some of it does at least.
As far as not bringing her to daycare, I really feel that comes down to the people that run the place. If they feel they have a good handle on her quirks and can work around them/with them then continue to bring her. If you feel it is too much of a worry for all then move on. It doesn’t sound like it is a social thing for her past a point, or that they do too much. But as you said it is another outlet for them of sorts, as it gets them out of the house. So it comes down to you trusting the facility and those that work there to maintain a level of control you are okay with.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Anna
http://www.akginspiration.com
It seems to me that the problem here is the BARRIER that she sees between herself and the other dogs. It must trigger some negative reaction.. THE BARRIER.. NOT the dog behind it. It sounds to me like she doesn’t want anything between herself and the other dog and THAT is what she attacks. Is that even possible? I’m thinking that she didn’t mean to bite the Dog.. she meant to bit the Cage.
I wonder what she would do if you put a LARGE MIRROR behind a Fence or Cage?
Poor Delilah. 🙁
It doesn’t sound like she’s having much fun at that daycare at ALL!
XOXO
HERO
I am very sorry to hear that Delilah bit another dog Jodi. I can imagine that it was very stressful for you to hear this. I see from the comments that there are a number of helpful suggestions. I would only say that it is not fair on you to have this stress and worry. I think you are doing the right thing not taking Delilah to daycare for a while.
I’m another believer in no day care or doggie parks if your dog has any dog on dog issues, even if it is just from behind gates. You just never know what might cause an issue to escalate. Perhaps you can find a person whose dog gets along well with Delilah and have play dates to tire her out?
Do you have access to a trainer that can come and evaulate what might be causing the problem? It’s hard to diagnose and repair issues like that over the internet. One person might say fear, another dog aggression, another, barrier aggression – etc..etc… but without seeing for themselves, how can they really be sure?
So glad the other owner was cool about the bite and it didn’t turn out to be a major event. Phew.
Please get a professional to work with you on this, I disagree with several of these opinions on her behavior…
If she’s fine with other dogs in the day care area where there are no barriers and she’s fine in the retail area with other dogs when there are no barriers in between, then it’s most likely that it’s the gate/crate/fence that is the issue. This is common! It’s very similar to leash-related aggression issues – the dog feels frustrated by the barrier preventing them from the normal social interaction and greeting they would otherwise be able to perform with the dog they are approaching. And our good friend counter-conditioning is probably just the thing for this issue. I know Delilah gets crazy about treats – does she respond well to your affection? Use the tools in your training toolbox, be they treats, toys or affection, to begin to change her mind about barriers. Go slow, don’t get too close to the barriers and set her up for success each time you work on her counter conditioning.
By the way, don’t feel bad about your response to the situation. We all make lapses in judgement when it comes to how to resolve a situation when our dogs are misbehaving. I know this happens to me more often than I would like to admit but a part of me does a little bit of panicking. By recognizing that you probably didn’t handle the situation the way you would have preferred had your emotions not gotten in the way, you are on the way to better being able to handle the situation the next time. I always take those experiences to heart, reflect on how I would wanted to handle it and then am prepared to better handle it the next time. ‘Cause I’m also learning, just the same as my dogs!
Sorry to hear about your frustration with this. I’ll just second everything Married with Dawgs said–we’re all just learning and doing the best we can.
At Edie Jarolim’s blog I learned about BAT, Behavior Adjustment Training, for working with reactivity in dogs. One of the important principles is to allow dogs to make choices about while they’re still under their max stress threshold and realizing that walking away from something causing a reaction is its own reward.
It might not be something you could work on at the doggy daycare because of all the unknowns. But it might be something that will help you with all kinds of situations (dogs behind fences on your walks for instance). Here’s a link: http://functionalrewards.com/.
Good luck. And please share what you decide to do.
I understand the frustration having reactive dogs. I wish I knew with my first reactive dog what I knew when I adopted my second. I did a lot of counter conditioning with Ricochet and have been very proud of how he learned to handle different circumstances.
Pamela mentioned BAT which is one method of working with the issue. There is a seminar near you this summer. I haven’t read as much about it as I’d like to but the presenter Grisha Stewart is highly regarded with the positive dog trainers on the different lists and groups I belong to. Here the link for the event- http://tailsuwin.com/pages/events.htm
jodi, i typed out this whole big response the other day–on my phone–and then lost it, but i swear it was really good. i’ll never get it back the way it was, so here’s what i have to offer you now:
i think the assessments above about barrier aggression are pretty accurate and not going to daycare is probably a good idea. do you have a trainer you can work with for this? it will be much easier if you have some help. i don’t want you to get frustrated or discouraged trying to do it on your own. i wish you the very best of luck and hope you’ll continue to keep us all posted.