When we left off, I had just gotten Delilah free from her concrete entrapment. If you missed that story you can read about it here.
I head into the woods where I unclipped Sampson so I can at least have one hand free and I wrap what’s left of Delilah’s leash around my hand.
We meet Kingston’s mom about half-way up, get into the field and walk to the area where we part ways. I walk out to the car, load the dogs and head home.
I am defeated and resigned. I am lost, treading water in a vast ocean of disappointment. I am an utter failure in trying to train this dog.
After almost five years, I give up. I’m done.
Hubby comes home and says, “How are you?”
“I’m ok.”
“What’s up? You seem like you’re in a pissy mood.”
“Yup.”
Then I go on to tell him the story.
We talk about it. Seriously talk about it. I am conceding, I am giving in and getting an electronic collar for her. I don’t know what else to do.
I thank him for not being an ‘a’ hole about the whole thing and saying “I told you so.”
Meanwhile, the dog that sprang from Satan’s loins will not sit while I’m in the kitchen. After trying to teach her for 1,746 days, I’m frustrated. I yell at her to “SIT DOWN.”
It’s time to feed the dogs. They need to sit on the edge of the kitchen when I am preparing their meals. She will not. She gets up, she changes spots for a better vantage point. She tries to advance into the kitchen. My frustration with her from her earlier adventure hasn’t gone away. I have no patience for this.
Then yesterday morning she comes into the bathroom while I am trying to get ready for work. My frustration with her from the previous day has not gone away. She comes in and shoves her head between my legs and gets brown goo (from Dog knows what) on my work pants. I banish her from the bathroom and once again I feel lost.
Hubby says she is stubborn. It’s not that she isn’t smart, she is stubborn.
So am I. I am not a defeatist. You can knock me down and I will get back up. Do it 100 times, I will get back up. I might cry and rage, but I will get back up and I will figure out a way to knock you down.
Not this time. This time I’m defeated. It’s a horrible feeling. I’m not quite sure how to deal with it.
Crying, lots of crying. Which is another thing I don’t do well.
I have no confidence, if I can’t help this dog after almost five full years, then maybe I’m just not the right person for the job.
I’ve failed. I failed myself. I failed you, my faithful readers. I’ve failed all the positive reward based trainers out there but most of all I’ve failed my dog.
I wonder if the rescue will take her back. I wonder if this is the reason she was surrendered in the first place.
I wonder how people do this, day after day and still manage to put a smile on their face and accept the uniqueness that is their crazy, wild, untrainable dog.
P.S. This was written yesterday and I am in a much better place today, I haven’t put the collar on her yet (even though I borrowed one from a friend.) I want to order the DVD by Dr. Patricia McConnell and give it one last shot.
First, you have done a really good job with her. I think you are being waaaaaayyyyy (emphatic enough?) too hard on yourself. Look at our dogs. Do you think they always obey? I have tried to post the videos to show that they do not. I try to be honest about their successes and failures because there are plenty of both. Yes we use e-collar. But that is because we want to train to a higher level and not because they could not be trained without. E-collar is not the only way (however I will admit that is peace of mind in the woods). Sure Delilah took off, but you will never know whether she tried to come back because she was stuck.
Our trainer once said something that really resonated with me. He said that one of the reasons dogs seem to do better when he is working with them is because he is not emotional about how they do. He wants them to do well, but he doesn’t take it personally if they mess up, (because they will). Wow that made so much sense to me because I do believe dogs can pick up on our anger/frustration.
If you do decide to use e-collar remember it is only to reinforce what a dog knows and not to teach a concept. Since Delilah is older, you will have to tread carefully.
Good luck.
LOL this is so long…sorry.
I second what 2Browndawgs has said. It is sooo easy to get frustrated with our own dogs as we expect them to be perfect for some reason. I do find it is much easier to train other people’s dogs, and recognize the progress we have made than my own. Every dog messes up, no matter how much work you put into them. They will always still be dogs (and this is another main reason I use an e-collar… can’t fault them for being dogs and wanting to hunt and explore…they can get so tunnel visioned they don’t even hear you.) and they had a great point about you never knowing if she did try and come back but she was simply stuck. And as the training goes on to more advanced levels and competition levels you will see that those that enter these competitions are not even allowed to use the collar… this to me says they have that respect and love relationship with their dog if it will still listen to them and work with them in such a highly exciting environment (hunting dogs are typically bonkers in the presence of anything remotely hinting at hunting). So again, it is not an end all means of getting your dog to listen, it simply is a tool to help build that relationship when in an off leash situation.
And the other huge point is that it is NEVER used to teach, only to reinforce/remind what they know. This is the main reason it never seems to “work” for people who just slap it on and push buttons to correct. But it sounds like you have set a great recall foundation with her, so it is just a matter of transitioning her to the e-collar.
Anyway, I will shuddup. Do feel free to contact me if you have questions about the process.
Anna
@ 2BrownDawgs, Don’t apologize for giving me sound and solid advice and support. I don’t know how to keep my emotion out of training a recall. There are so many things that could happen to her and I can’t help but panic.
I hesitated for the collar because I know she is much older. I am thinking of one with only a beep and a vibration, just a little ‘reminder’ because she becomes so focused with her tunnel vision and I really think she can’t hear me. If she got a little ‘beep’ or a ‘vibration’ it might be enough to jar her back to where her head is supposed to be.
Please please research and read before you use that collar… I am leaving my email for you, please contact me if you have questions. Heck I will even talk on the phone with you about it if you want. I have conditioned dogs as small as mini dachshunds to great danes on these collars and all eventually got it and were just fine to run free and recall in. I typically don’t trust the brands you can buy at petco etc. I tend to stick with the brands that hunting dog owners have used and trusted for years on end. I can speak with you more about my brand suggestions too, based on your dog’s personality. I can’t stress enough how important it is to go about this properly, too many people just throw collars on and start pushing buttons and it becomes a correction level rather than a simple communication level and thus their dogs learn to respect the collar not their humans (not saying you would do this).
Please don’t feel bad about using one of these collars either, I hate that they get such a bad rap. I feel that this is a human problem, usually having something to do with ignorance and a lack of patience. They can be a fantastic tool, if used properly.
Take care and don’t lose heart, there are always 100 different ways to train, you have to find what works for you and your dog.
Anna
Andabagel@aol.com
Anna, thank you, I appreciate your input and support and offer of help. I told Hubby I want to try one more thing before putting her on the e-collar and he said he would try it. I know she knows the recall, she just (as you said) gets tunnel vision and sees nothing but what she wants. The beep/vibrate would be a reminder that there is something else going on that you need to pay attention to. At least that would be my hope.
I may take you up on your offer too! Thank you.
I thought the treat training would work since she is such a food whore, but whatever is in the woods is better than anything I could carry. 🙁
You are more than welcome. Everyone always remarks at how great Luna is, but I have totally been there. Being a dog trainer and having a less than perfect dog (many days she really likes to live up to her “B” status.. mostly with other dogs, and I do say that with love) just makes it even harder to live up to what they expect. But I am getting better at letting Luna be who she is, in a safe way. Before an ecollar even came into the picture I had a strong foundation with her, and she clearly knew what I wanted from her. It all came down to me or game birds one day. She does love her collar though, and has no hesitation about it being put on, nor does her behavior change drastically when it is on… I take that as a sign that I did something right. Oh and in the hunt tests I trial her in, she can’t even wear the ecollar and she is well on her way to another title.
I have a dog I recently trained to the e-collar who is VERY sensitive (where most dogs typically respond to level 40 of 150.. this dog responded to 15), but at the same time he is a dog who can’t just be walked on leash. Just like my Luna he needs time to run and explore, to be happy and content. I know there are sometimes dog parks to run your dog in, but honestly they come with their own drama, disease, ignorance, and chaos that I usually don’t have the energy to deal with or put my dog through. And when you have an active smart dog you need multiples places to take your dog to have a hope of wearing their brains out, and often they are just not available.
I know you will figure it out, you have come up with so much already… I love when dogs force me to think outside of the box to problem solve, really keeps me on my toes. Please don’t hesitate to ask for any advice, I have dealt with all sorts of dogs when it comes to conditioning them to run on an e-collar. That largely is all we use it for around here, to allow them to run, it makes me sad to even think of a dog who never gets to be off leash.
I don’t mean to be on a soap-box about ecollars… I just feel someone has to represent them for the great tool they can be. Good luck and do keep us posted. I know this is something many can relate to, so it would probably end up doing a lot more good than you think.
🙁 She’ll redeem herself.
How? By giving me a kidney? LOL She is still cute, but man can she tax the crap out of me.
I am glad Anna will help you with the collar. I agree that if you do it, it must be done carefully and correctly.
One other comment. Do not be afraid to go back in your training and reinforce what the dog already knows. Sometimes you just have to stop and go back. Many people feel that once the dog knows something…that should be it. If that were the case I would not be out standing in a cold field most Saturdays. 🙂 You may have to go back and reinforce sit. You may have to go back and reinforce here before you let Delilah out to run again. I would do that training separate from any walks for a while.
Again, good luck.
You are right of course, it can just be very discouraging some days. I try to maintain a cool and relaxed demeanor but it doesn’t always work. And Hubby doesn’t help. He is always yelling and standing over her and I think it just sends her mixed messages but I can’t seem to make him understand this. Any suggestions for that? Will the collar work on him? 😉
If the collar worked on hubby’s, don’t you think I would use it? 😉
I do wonder though if Delilah wouldn’t benefit from some real structured training where she has an actual job to do. I think you said she likes agility, maybe try to find a place where you can do that more regularly?
*hugs*
Are there any animal behavorists in your area that do home visits? Our trainer changed our life. I am not exaggerating on that. A good trainer can give you the tools you need and help you look at your situation in a more objective way. Group classes are great but some dogs really need a more customized plan. Nothing is a quick fix but a good trainer who understands Delilah and her needs will be able to provide the kind of suggestions that may help over time.
You haven’t failed anyone. You just haven’t found the right way yet, the way that clicks for both you and Delilah. I know it sucks. It really really really sucks. It’s okay to feel frustrated and to give yourself a break. Would your husband be able to walk the dogs for a while so you can do so? Sometimes it’s good to take a step back and breathe so you can gain some perspective. Even if you have to put her in a crate for half an hour so you can.
I know things will get better. I am sorry they are just so crappy right now. If you ever need to vent, I am just an email away.
I second Kristine’s hugs, and she said it all better than I ever could.
Thanks Pup fan!!
Kristine, You are entirely so, so sweet. To ask your readers to stop by was above and beyond. Just having you there and knowing that you know what I’m going through helps!
Yes, I do have a trainer that I had contacted and I’m trying to finagle funds to get her over. I also had another referral today and I will check into it.
Hubby cannot walk them because he is more of the “man handle” the dog type of trainer. He feels he must be the alpha and show her that he is bigger, smarter and stronger than she is. I don’t want her trained that way, so it is mostly me that deals with her. Unless he hears her barking and jumping and then he must come into the room and tower over her, getting her to bend to his will. It dirves me mental.
Don’t be surprised if you get an e-mail. I have seen the awesomeness and bad assery that YOU are capable of. 🙂
Yeah, it’s tough when the funds just aren’t there. But I am glad you are feeling a little better about things. That’s important!
As I say, don’t ever feel guilty about taking a break. It can be crucial. There are still some days when Shiva is driving me nuts and to attempt to interact with her would be more harmful than taking a step back, putting her in her crate with a Kong, and reading a book for half an hour. You have to do what’s good for you first sometimes.
Big, HUGE long-distance hug. We have those days, everyone with a dog has them. Gwynn ate a fanged fish-head thing while prancing circles around me. He can’t be off-leash anywhere near houses because he goes into backyards to investigate.
The incident in the backyard sounds cringe-worthy, but the woman sounds really not at all upset about it – if she doesn’t have a fenced in backyard, and there’s a forest of trails behind it, she probably is used to people and dogs finding their way back there. You were on her property – if she’d been pissed, you’d have heard about it.
I agree with someone near the top of the comments from the previous post – what about a harness? I use the Easy Walk Harness on Gwynn, and it is great for re-directing his attention. it attaches at the front (though, when she’s draggin, i’d probably attach it at the side), so when the dog lunges (say, at a cat, small child, or other person equally frightened of a loud big dog), all his force goes into turning him towards you, even though eh wants to go ‘thataway’.
You are doing a great job with Delilah. You aren’t even remotely a failure. All you can do is your best, and your best is most certainly good enough. No matter how good she is at recall, she will sometimes find something so ‘fascinating’ she just tunes out. What about one of those collars with the radio thingy in it – so that she could hear you even if she’s far off. I think that’s a real thing… or i have a vivid imagination…
Well Lexy let’s be truthful here, you do have a very vivid imagination. 🙂 But if they don’t have one of those radio thingys, they should! What a great idea.
A fanged fish-head? WTF? Where in the world did he find that?
And I am definitely thinking of the Easy Harness, I will need to find out where to buy one and I also agree, she just will not be able to be lose when she is anywhere near a back yard. It’s just too darn tempting for her.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your advise, support and long distance hug. It is greatly appreciated.
There are some very disturbing creatures in Lake Ontario, and in the creek that I walk by. It looked like half a dinosaur fish, I have no idea what it might actually have been, but it was a fish head with massive fang-teeth sticking out of the jaw portion. He ate most of it and didn’t seem to have any negative side effects – I was worried that he’d end up getting cut up inside from the fish teeth, but I guess they were soft enough.
Gross, I probably would have freaked out!
Hey Jodi. I think what might help is to take a step back and stop trying to train her for a week or even several weeks. Really, just give yourself a break.Toby is so much like your Delilah that my heart breaks for you, as i know exactly what you’re feeling. I’ve been there too.
At first, i thought it was me, that I was a bad trainer. But all my other dogs are trained. Even Meadow is developing a pretty solid recall (not that we would ever test it with her). over time, with Toby’s OCD’s and unmanageable behaviors, I’ve grown to realize that he is just a little off. Some dogs can be you know. And now, rather than trying to train him to do certain things 100% reliably, I have accepted that he will never be perfect, and I manage those behaviors that I can’t change.
And you know what, he will never be reliable off leash – so I keep him leashed. And he will never be calm around food. He is completely 100% food obsessed and he loses his mind around it. I’ve trained him not to jump up in just about every other situation, except when someone is carrying food. So now, i watch for that situation and then hold his collar so he can’t jump up. As for the poop eating, I pick it up – every-time he goes.
I also questioning myself on every behavior I wanted to train him to do. (or rather, not to do). And most of it was not necessary. Maybe ask yourself:
Why does she need to be reliable off leash? Some dogs are never reliable off leash.
Why does she need to sit at meal times. Maybe you can take a break from trying to get her to sit and just tether her, or crate her. If her mind is that blown out at the thought of food, take away her responsibility for a bit, and just manage her. Then maybe try training the sit down the road.
And always remember, she is not Sampson. So try not to compare their behaviors.
Honestly, when I stopped trying to force the square peg into the round hole, I suddenly felt better about my dog. And you know what, when I stopped being angry and frustrated with him all the time, I started just appreciating his good traits. Like that he is always reliable around other living things. That he is a gentle soul. That he is incredibly smart and learns new behaviors amazingly fast. I think I’ve rambled too much, but I’m just trying to express to you that I understand and you can ALWAYS email if you need to talk.
Thank you Donna,
It is so easy to get caught up in the frustration especially when you work and work on one particular thing and she just doesn’t get it.
Tonight she did very well, but Hubby wasn’t there. I had her sit and as soon as she moves I stop what I am doing and just wait. If she mouths at me, I let her have her say until she stops, then I pick up where I left off.
Hubby was outside so I can do this, when he is inside he must come over and shout at her and tell her to stop, I think it is so counter productive.
I have accepted that she will always be nuts around food. I don’t know how the first 18 months of her life were but I do know that she is always in survival mode. I accept that, with sadness of course but I do accept it.
And quite frankly if she weren’t dragging a long leash or running into people’s yards I wouldn’t care if her recall was 100%, but we all know there are some (forgive me) shitty people out there and I don’t want to lose her because of some a-hole.
It helps to know people understand what I am talking about because they have dealt with a similar situation, thank you for the support it means so much and I’m sorry that you are dealing with Delilah’s twin.
Everyone had such great comments for you & I hope that they really help you realize what a great job you’re doing w/Delilah & that you are not a failure.
Sending you hugs….
Thanks Meesh. I appreciate it.
I am glad you are feeling better today. I urge you to find a professional positive reinforcement trainer to consult before trying the e-collar yourself. Professional trainers can see where you may be sabotaging your own training and have toolboxes FULL of tips/tricks/hints of working with a variety of behaviors…. the most common thing I hear from my private students is “I would never have thought of that”–exactly, that’s why you are paying me the “big bucks”. You may be shocked the number of people who come to me with “stubborn dog[s] who refuses to listen! …I’ve tried it all” and in short order we’ve made progress and they are just amazed. The owners were often on the right track but were doing any number of thigns to make their training less effective.
I think jumping to e-collars is often done for the wrong reasons–an emotional decision or one based on frustration or anger. E-collars aren’t going to solve your frustration problem. You still have to teach a reliable recall before you can correct them for not following your cue (though if you crank up the shock level high enough you can “down” a dog who doesn’t listen and is running off, but that’s probably going to create MASSIVE fallout). If they don’t know the expectation it’s unfair to punish them with a shock and it doesn’t help them learn what you WANT them to do. So you still have to do the training even with the collar (when it’s used in a way that is less likely to cause fallout–most people don’t do it the ‘right’ way and end up with problems).
Hang in there… take it as a lesson learned. I would, in the mean time use a back-hook harness so if she hits the end it’s not on her neck. I also wouldn’t let her drag the line–if you use a shorter line she doesn’t have as much momentum to pull you over so maybe keep her on a 10/15ft line. You devalue your recall word/whistle each time you use it and she doesn’t respond so don’t set up situations where that will happen, hang on to the long line so you can guide her back if needed. You can also try adding a bungee section to the long line so that there is some “give” at the end and the bungee absorbs most of the energy at the end so you don’t get pulled off your feet.
Thank you Tena, so many times I wish there wasn’t such distance between me and those I know will help.
I’ve reached out to a couple of trainers but I really want someone who will come to my house and walk with us and teach me.
It is very frustrating and I’m pretty sure she knows what I want from her, she just finds something that she wants more. I was using roast beef for the recall but that gets really pricey for the amount of times we walk.
I’m am really hesitant to put her on a collar, but I think sometimes that a little beep near her ear might be enough to snap her off her focus.
I do really appreciate your input.
You are so not a failure–yes indeed, you are being way too hard on yourself!
Donna raises a great point about what we want of our dogs vs. what they are capable of. Sure some dogs may be able to come reliably off leash, and some dogs may be calm, some dogs may naturally have no inclination to jump up on people, bark, or do any of the doggy things that those of us who have difficult dogs wish they wouldn’t do. But dogs, like humans, have wonderfully diverse personalities. Maybe Delilah is not the “easiest” dog, but she certainly has a ton of wonderful, loving personality.
I go through this all the time with Fozzie, wishing he were an easier dog, wishing it were easier to have guests over with him, wishing he were like all the more easily trainable dogs I know, wondering why after two years of working with him he is still so darned impulsive. But there’s a reason dogs like Delilah and Fozzie end up in rescue or on death row. Most people really don’t want a dog who is higher maintenance or has issues that may never be fully responsive to training. Isn’t it kind of an honor to be the person who gives a dog like that a loving home?
Thank you Kirsten, some days I really don’t feel like it is an honor at all. Some days I almost which I hadn’t gotten a second dog.
You are right though, there is a reason dogs like Fozzie and Delilah are surrendered, many people tell me that I’ve gone above and beyond with Delilah. The only thing that kept me from returning her the first day was that I did not want to be another person in her life that failed her.
If she has to be a leashed dog then that is what she will be, I can’t do anything about it, but I’m not ready to concede that just yet.
Thank you for your support and encouragement.
I can’t offer much training advice, though you know I use the e collar with Sophie and find it to be useful. Just wanted to say hang in there and send a big hug!
I know many people who use the e collar and have no problem with it, my problem is putting it on a six year old dog and how she will react.
Thanks for the support Patty, I appreciate it.
OMG Tomorrow’s another day Scarlett!! I don’t have time to read any comments so I hope I’m not being repetitive… you can’t and I know you won’t give up on Delilah. She’s part of your family. I’ve had the experience of my dogs aging and the training starts to go out the window. You love them anyway. That never changes and I can’t imagine you re-homing Delilah ever, no matter what, because that’s not your nature Jodi. I am probably going to give terrible advice, unlike all the pros who usually comment on your blog. How about lowering some of your expectations? She wasn’t raised from a puppy by you like Sampson. She maybe shouldn’t be held to the same standards. She came from a “broken home” and she may never be right, just like abused human children… I really think you should keep her on a leash at all times unless she’s in a fenced area, then you don’t have to have these sad expectations and Delilah will be in a “position to win.” It’s win/win for everyone. Just MHO, with all due respect and love.
LOL oh Sassy, thank you for making me smile. You are right, sometimes in life we have to lower our expectations. If that is the case then that is what I will do. I have no problem with her having to be a leashed dog.
Thanks for the support.
Wow, I feel EXACTLY the way you describe here a lot of the time with my dog. I know what the frustration feels like after one year, I can’t imagine how you feel after 5 years. All I can say is what people have said to me- you are doing your best, and maybe you are the right owner for her because what other owner would try this hard and care this much? I am sending psychic support your way and hope things get better soon.
Thanks Karen, my sister tells me all the time I’ve done more for her than most people would have done. She says most people would have returned her, but that would be like returning on of my children because they didn’t behave.
It was a really bad day, but today is a new one and we will survive, you will too. Hang in there.
Please take heart Jodi. There is lots of good advice and support in the comments. I believe in you and Delilah xx
Thanks Bassa, I am considering sending her over to you so you can set her strait. :0
Thank you for being so honest. I think everyone has had those moments where they just want to give up. I agree with previously posters on seeking professional help and evaluating whether you can be OK with her not having a solid recall. Maybe she just doesn’t get to roam off leash? That’s perfectly OK in my book. I live in a city where many people walk their dogs off leash though out the city but my dogs will never be off leash in that environment. They only get off leash at dog parks and on hiking trails.
If it makes you feel any better, I just realized that treats during training make Maggie crazy. 5 1/2 years I’ve had Maggie and it just recently clicked with me that she cannot concentrate on learning a new behavior when I have a yummy treat in my hand. She’s done so much better this month with our training goal of learning to twirl now that I use my praise as a reinforcer and a pile o’ treats once we finish the training session. What I’m saying is to not give up – it takes time to figure out what makes our dogs tick, it takes sooooo much time to get a reliable recall it’s not even funny (and for some dogs, it’s not possible) – I think it’s OK for Delilah not to be perfect and not to be Sampson. Think of all the ways her craziness makes you smile. That’s what helps me get through my dog’s shortcomings and challenges – by stopping the worry about what they can’t do and embrace all of the ways their craziness brings joy in my life.
Give yourself and Delilah a break from some of these expectations and get back to just enjoying each other. You both have worked so hard that you deserve a break to recharge and refresh!
I have to be honest. I promised myself when I started blogging that I would include the good, the bad and the ugly. This was part of the bad.
You know it never dawned on me to not reward her until after the training. I’m not sure how that would work in terms of a recall, but I am reconciling myself to the fact that she may never be an off-leash dog unless she is perfectly contained. There aren’t many areas like that where I live (I don’t really care for the dog park and the limited space for running.) I like hiking in the woods and I like to include the dogs. One of them may just have to be leashed is all. But that’s ok.
Thanks for stopping by and offering support, it means a lot.
this one made me want to cry, and i when i read the part about going back to the shelter, i wanted to jump through my computer and hug you. i’m very very glad that you are feeling better about things after the fact, and i hope that you’re feeling even better now. you’re not a failure and you haven’t let anyone down. training is forever, and that’s what so many people fail to understand about getting a dog. not that i think YOU don’t understand that, i just want you to be way less harsh on yourself. five years seems to be a long time–and maybe you do need to explore other options–but it’s still ok. you’ll get there. or maybe you won’t, and you’ll have to accept that she just can’t be an off-leash dog. either way, it will turn out the way it needs to. xoxo
Believe me it’s not something that I really want to consider, but sometimes in life there are hard choices to make.
I am feeling much better although thinking about it can still make me sad. We will find something that works or she will be a leashed dog for the rest of her life. If I wasn’t so worried about her getting hurt, I would just let her run and leave her, (like most of the dog people do up there) but I care too much about her.
Thanks for commenting and offering support, it really helps.
Has anybuddy said anythingy about the size of your blog? Everythingy is so BIG that I can’t teally see only half of each line. I tired to make it smaller but it doesn’t seem to have any effect.
I know that you are doing a fangtastic job of training.
No, nobody has said anything. I wonder if it’s the browser you are using? The next post I will see about using a different font and see if that helps. Is this the first time you’ve had this happen or is it all the time?
Your blog looks fine to me. I am on a laptop.
Hi Y’all,
Try hitting control zero.
Y’all come by now,
Hawk aka BrownDog
Thanks, I sometimes forget those little secret key strokes. 🙂
Hi Jodi,
Well now that I have full context for the question about recall you left on an old post of mine, I maybe should have been a bit more thorough in my reply.
Do NOT beat yourself up!
First of all, you provide her with a loving, safe home. With that, you have wholly succeeded. Needs are met.
Off leash? That’s a minor concern if you ask me. A bonus.
I of course encourage you to continue to work on training, and maybe just wipe the slate clean, and start from the very beginning, on a six foot leash with close-distance recall only for the next few weeks… or even months. And then slowly build up – reinforcing that coming to you is the best thing, and that when you give her recall cue, she comes in 100% of the time – no exceptions.
But what if she bolts again?
You know what…. so what?
There are crap tonnes (an official unit of measurement) of people who have this very problem. Several don’t even care, and you see them shouting their heads off at the off-leash park. But that “not caring” just drives me bananas, so the fact that you are even feeling defeated is a good thing (to an extent), in my opinion.
But others just deal. Maybe it means that certain off-leash circumstances aren’t on the table for you two. So what? That’s you and your dog. Who’s to judge?
Maybe you always need to go to a fully enclosed area to ensure safety and control. There’s nothing wrong with that. It certainly doesn’t warrant a return to the rescue.
Then again, if you truly do feel another home is best, I encourage you to make the decision that is really best for both of you. It’s like parents who don’t divorce “for the kids” – that’s so infrequently the right decision.
Whatever you do, you have my support.
Thank you Jen, I certainly don’t want to return her. I mean after almost five years I’m kind of attached to her. 🙂 It was a low moment and I was writing how I felt, I am better today thanks for the most part to all of the wonderful, kind and helpful comments I received.
I am taking a step back and imagine she has given me a couple of days worth of blogging material. 🙂
I am constantly picking the brains of better trainers than myself to see what works for them and will try just about anything with her, so I really appreciate your advice and support.
What a dirty rotten day! Sending virtual hugs and passing you a strong drink to help you cope.
I am sure that you’ve gotten some awesome awesome advice here. We struggled with Koly’s recall (He, like Delilah, is TOO DARN SMART for his own good!) What turned it all around for us was joining a dog sport (we chose agility). Having somewhere to go and focus just on each other and having fun is what built up our relationship.
The other thing I would share is that we’ve had Felix 5 years and I feel like he is just now coming into the dog he’s supposed to be. It just took him a little longer to truly connect with me enough to reliably come when I call. We were friends and he “liked” me, but it wasn’t until he started recognizing me as “his” that off leash became an option. He knew the command and what I wanted, but until that crazy bond was finally cemented between us all of his training was spotty, at best. Now he looks frequently to make sure he is still close.
Hang in there~ she may not be perfect, but she’s come so far!
Thanks Jodi, Koly and Felix,
You are right, she is very smart and I need to find something that she enjoys. I did get a great idea from my trainer today and intend to write a really good post about it.
How did you cement that bond with Felix? I know she knows what I want because she gives it to me 99.9% of the time, it’s just when something is more tempting…..
And you are right again, she has come so far. When I think back to that first day. Oy, what a nightmare!!
Thanks for weighing in and thanks for the hug and drink, the drink was particularly helpful. 🙂
Me and my Felix need to spend “alone time” together on a frequent basis in order to keep our bond strong. Koly has a way of taking up all the air in the room, so to speak. Felix craves and needs one on one time where we can play, walk, and train. He is not on single bit food motivated, so I really have to rely on him seeing me as the BEST THING around, so I try never to get mad at him, never to scold, rather with him I have to ignore the bad, high praise and attention for the good. When we were training recall, I actually used a 20′ rope so that he could get that “off leash” freedom before I could trust him!
I also did eye-contact training with him (click & treat everytime he made eye contact). Anytime he wants something (toy, treat, attention) h has to make eye contact to get it. Now I find that he’ll look to me to see what I want.
Ultimately, creating that bond is down to what Delilah loves most. Perhaps she needs more consistent stimulation through an organized sport? Perhaps sh cravs one on one time? You know her better than anyone. If there is something she loves beyond all else, exploit it and use that to help build up your bond.
(PS – 5 years later and if a little girl walk by our fence, all bets are off. Felix is a sucker for the tiny humans and nothing I could ever do or say will over rule the pull of that kid!)
And hey – CHEERS! Why not have another ;0) It is Saturday after all!
Even with the really well behaved that we have (that “used” to stop on a dime when we called her if she was off leash) some times . .the reward just seems SO MUCH BETTER than behaving. I’m sorry you had a bad couple of day and hope that you know that we are all pulling for you AND Delilah 🙂 After having my brother’s dog for two months, I realized how tough it is to come into to a dogs life after 3 years and expect them to understand all of the new rules. I’m still not convinced that EVERY dog is able to be off leash (but I am NO expert!) Big hugs to you!
Thank you Julie, she may never be able to be off leash, unless it is in an enclosed area and I will come to terms with that. It makes me sad because we have such a beautiful area with lots of places for sniffing and digging and running. But if it turns out that she can’t be off leash, well then she will just have to stay on leash.
Thanks for stopping by and lending your support.
Hi Y’all,
Don’t give up! You’re just having a rough spot!
Listen to Anna and 2browndawgs.
Work with someone who uses the e-collar. Hawk wears one off and on…when he gets sloppy about obeying.
It had been a few years since I’d used one, so I worked with a trainer. We decided that he only needs the audibles, of which his collar has several.
The trick is to reward or correct the right behavior. I remember being in advanced obedience class with Hawk, rewarding a behavior when the instructor said “You just rewarded a sit”. Of course not the one I was supposed to reward.
One thing I’ve learned over the decades is that when I get frustrated I just quit and start over another day. Have short 5 to 15 minute training sessions daily. Try to keep the ending positive. (Hawk is coming up on 6 yrs and still has short daily training to reinforce what he knows) Of course none of this would have helped you the other day.
Oh, by the way, I’ve ended up on my back or stomach a couple of times with a younger Hawk. Some dogs are never completely trustworthy.
Good luck y’all,
BrownDog’s Human
Thank you, she took me down on New Year’s eve and I spent an hour (and $150) in the Emergency room. LOL
I need to schedule time to work with them daily, I mean we do work with them on their sits, downs, stays and come in the house, but I probably should do it outside too, just to add some distractions.
Normally I take her to obedience class and there are also distractions there but lately it’s been tough getting to the those.
Thank you for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.
You sound exhausted and frustrated in this post, Jodi. I hope the outpouring of support has been helpful. You’re certainly not alone.
And much of your frustration comes because you’re in a relationship with Delilah. If you didn’t love her so much, she wouldn’t exasperate you this way. Most people become irritated by their dogs and leave them behind somewhere or leave them tied up at the local shelter after closing hours.
You’re trying to make a relationship work and you’re hitting a tough wall. I know there’s a breakthrough coming somewhere. But you have to give yourself enough peace to find it.
You’ve gotten lots of advice from talented dog people and trainers. I hesitate to add any more but I’ll just remind you that your reward to Delilah for coming when you call have to be even more rewarding than running away. Even great kibble might not be enough.
Honey is not a runner (thank goodness) but I wouldn’t allow her off leash without something at least as tasty as liver in my pocket and perhaps a tug toy or two. And none of my other dogs were ever trusted off leash (except Agatha when she was 14 years old!). Off leash recall in a stimulating environment is a very advanced skill. So cut yourselves some slack.
I look forward to reading about where you go from here. And yes, it’s hard.
Are those really options? Just Kidding. I would never do that, she’s chipped they would find me and bring her back. Just kidding again.
You are right of course, she couldn’t upset me that much if I didn’t care so much for her. And I guess I will need to find some really smelly, stinky treat if I want to try her off leash again. I wish the toy would work, but neither of the dogs are big on toys as a reward.
I was very frustrated and exhausted Pamela, at times as I’m sure you know training a dog with issues can just wear you down mentally. It happens to the best of us.
Thank you for your kind words and support, it is greatly appreciated and you know wherever we go, we plan on taking you all along too!
steak and sausage bits were useful in training my greyhound Barbie recall…. though we she is not allowed offleash in the woods, only places where we can always see each other like the beach, and riverside parks.