Heart Like a Dog

The Good, the Bad, and the Oh My God of living with dogs!

Vaccinations….Day Three Hundred, Twenty Four

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Our friend over at 2BrownDawgs posed a really great question to me; why don’t I vaccinate against Distemper.

I’m going to try not to climb on one of my favorite soap boxes here, but give you a quick and dirty. 😉

The older I’ve gotten and the more information I digest, I’ve begun to feel that we over-vaccinate in this country. Honestly, if I was having children right now I would be thinking long and hard about what I would vaccinate for. But I digress….

The first set of shots we gave to Sampson left him with a hard lump on his lower back. That was when I seriously started questioning shots.

In CT your dog must be vaccinated for Rabies; that is the only shot they require. Most training centers require your dog to be vaccinated against Bordetella (Kennel Cough) and Distemper.

Sampson has been vaccinated against Bordetella and gotten the virus; three times.  That was when I asked the vet what the point was of vaccinating him if he was going to get it anyway. The best explanation I got was the shot covers two or three of the 12 known strains. Well if it covered all but two or three then I might consider it; but since I don’t board the dogs and they don’t go to dog shows, I pass on the Bordetella.

In the past I have had the dogs Titered  (Tie derd) which is a measuring of antibodies in the blood. That is usually sufficient for daycare.

Each year when I take the dogs for their annual visits, I discuss the shots with the vet to determine which shots they really need. At Delilah’s last visit we talked about Distemper and Parvo and if I remember the conversation correctly, our Dr. feels the shots protection lasts much longer than the manufacturer indicates.  Hubby thinks she said ten years, but the American Animal Hospital recommendation is seven years.  You can read their recommendations for all vaccinations here.

My vet tends to favor the holistic side of medicine, which is why I like her and every visit I say, “Dr. Soutter, what do you vaccinate your dog for?”

Last visit she vaccinated for Rabies and Leptospirosis; and since we spend a lot of time hiking in areas where wild animals live, we decided to vaccinate for Leptos.

Sampson is scheduled for his yearly check up next Friday and I intend on re-visiting the vaccination subject.  I’ll keep you posted. 😉

Thanks again to 2BrownDawgs for the most excellent question.

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  1. I only started learning about vaccines recently since Fred was diagnosed with epilepsy. I might at some point think about getting him titered but ill be honest I do feel like spending the $145 every year when my vet can just give the shot for $12. I totally understand why people do it and I do agree that I know those vaccines have to last longer than a year.

  2. Molly had a terrible reaction to her ‘first with us’ vaccines & I’m very hesitant to put her through that again next month. Jodi could you message me with your vet’s contact info please? Thanks!

  3. My vet does not vaccinate every year for everything, my girls are on a rotation for their vaccines and yes I agree that after so many vaccines they do build up thier immunities and I am concidering not vaccinating (other than rabies) after 8 years old, I’m still researching that. I do vaccinate for Bordetella since we do show but I do not do Corona or Lepto, my gril’s mother had a reaction to the Lepto vaccine and my vet does not reccommend either since we are not in an area where we have potential exposure to wild animals on a regular basis.

    They have researched and found the vaccines do last longer than a year and the 2011 AAHA
    Canine Vaccination Guidelines were just published this is their link https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf

    I couldn’t get your link to work for the vaccination info, could just be my browser.

    I always like to hear others opinions on their vaccination schedules, thanx for sharing your thoughts and opinions on the subject. 🙂

  4. Great post! Our first dog, we vaccinated for everything because the vet told us to. I never thought to question that. Since Sophie was such a sick puppy, I did a lot of reading and researching. I found a holistic vet and learned that not all vaccines are a must. Sophie has not gotten bortadella vaccine since her first round as a puppy and at the suggestion of our vet no lepto vaccine either. She is due for her titer in March. I am a little worried at the cost.

  5. Titering can be so costly. I would discuss with your vet first to see if she even recommends the titer. I did not titer either of my dogs at their last visits but will discuss again this year and she if advises it. If I recall, the last time was very expensive. $300+ but I don’t remember what was included in all that.

    Isn’t it funny how we just do what the vet says without thinking to question? Since I got Sampson I am ALWAYS questioning, because I want him around as long as possible. 🙂

  6. Thanks for answering my question. 🙂

    I totally understand the decision not to vaccinate against bordetella. From what I understand, that vaccine is like the human flu shot and it is just a best “guess” as to which strains will be around during any given period. I will say that we had the exact opposite experience that you describe. We did not immunize and then each year Thunder would get “kennel cough”. It didn’t matter that he was not around other dogs because the virus can be carried on a person’s clothing or shoes, (It doesn’t have to be dog to dog contact). Once Thunder (always him because he thinks a good boy dog should lick the ground 🙂 ), got sick, he was out for hunting and training so he could recuperate. We started vaccinating each year and we haven’t had that issue since.

    However to my mind distemper and parvo are completely different than bordetella. I guess I am old enough to remember a time when vaccines were not available or widely used and dogs routinely died of these diseases. Distemper being the scariest because there is no cure and the animals always had to be euthanized. I understand the idea of not wanting to booster every year, but I am not really convinced that the vaccines last in every circumstance (just not enough research for me). Also, titer tests do not always indicate whether a booster is necessary because they cannot take into account how well a dog’s immune system is working. (The reason behind this is more complicated than can be explained here.)

    I do know that a couple of years back we had a bad parvo outbreak here in Michigan and many dogs (who did not have current boosters….missing only one year), died. This is because there are many forms of parvo and while they had been vaccinated for one kind….well it was not the type that was the killing dogs. I have also heard of recent distemper outbreaks (not MI, but in the US and quite a few recently) which have killed a lot of dogs. This resulted in the recommendation to booster. In fact, whenever there is an outbreak, the recommendation is always to make sure the dogs are current on their boosters.

    I understand the idea behind not over vaccinating. I don’t want you to think that I am saying that you are not doing right by your dogs Jodi. The decision of how/when to booster is completely up to pet owners after consultation with their vet. However, for us, the idea that there could even be a chance that our dogs could contract one of these diseases is just not one we are willing to take. If I had a dog with epilepsy, I would consider the effect of a booster on the disease/treatment. But our dogs are healthy so that is not an issue.

    Great thought provoking post Jodi. 🙂

    • I had heard of the parvo outbreak but not of the distemper.

      I had also heard about the bordetella being similar to our flu, so I definitely don’t vaccinate for that. If my dogs were around dogs the way yours are, I might well have a very different view point. 🙂

      That being said, because I didn’t vaccinate last year does not mean I won’t vaccinate THIS year, it will all depend upon my discussion with the vet (which I do every year when they are scheduled for their vaccines.)

      So far they both seem to be healthy with good immune systems but we will still discuss this year and base our decision upon whtat our vet tells us.

      Delilah does tend to be similar to Thunder in that she is always eating stuff from the ground, so I will be sure and bring that to the Vet’s attention as well.

      As always thank you for the respectful way you present yourself; you always challenge me to think outside my safe little world. 🙂

      • That parvo outbreak was scary. We were at a hunt test at that time and spoke to a vet that treated a couple of cases. She was the one who told me that the dogs had missed their boosters by not quite a year.

        We also had a lepto outbreak last summer when they were working on a local freeway and the rodents that were living there made their way to neighboring backyards. A couple of mostly indoor dogs died (that is transmitted mostly by rodent urine). It was sad.

        Anyway I meant to say before that when our Golden got older and was having health issues (he was 12) we elected not to vaccinate due to his health. I think the only vaccine he got was a rabies booster and that was only because we have had rabid animals around our city from time to time.

    • I think you are smart to do so, it’s a shame that people are so uneducated about the breed. I have seen some sweet and beautiful little pitties.

  8. Luckily we have never had any problems with the vaccinations Shiva has received. No reactions, no allergies. But I realize this isn’t the case for all dogs. I am kind of on the fence about this issue. I do think basic vaccinations are important as unvaccinated animals can cause a major spread of disease in the community. In my opinion, for my own family, I choose to follow my vet’s suggested schedule. It makes me feel safer.

    But if my dog was having difficulties, I am sure my choice would be much different. In the end, you have to do what’s right by you and your dogs. I refuse to judge anyone’s choice, especially when it is as informed as yours is.

    • Thanks Kristine, both of the dogs have had their initial sets of shots, it is the boosters I hesitate to give. I will go through their records to determine the last time they had a booster and discuss it with the Dr. and make the decision based upon all factors.

      I agree the dogs should all be initially vaccinated for the very reason you mention, it is just the frequency of the boosters I question.

      As for the bordetella, well 2BrownDawgs is right, it is the same as the human flu shot in the fact it only protects against certain strains of the virus. I myself don’t get a flu shot and would be a total hypocrite if I made my dogs do it. 🙂

      I appreciate your support. 🙂

  9. Great post! I fully believe that vaccines (and food additives and the like) cause a lot of cancers and other illnesses in animals and people. That said, vaccines also save a lot of lives, and are very important in preventing serious diseases. We took a dog home from a shelter for a trial adoption once and by the next day he was deathly ill, rushed him to the vet, and he died the following day of Parvo. My mother also adopted a shelter dog only to have it die in a week from distemper. These, and others like them, are horrible, horrible diseases, and they are still around.

    These vaccines are so important, but again, there are things we can do for our pets to prevent over-vaccination. Vaccinating every three years instead of annually is one, only vaccinating for diseases common in your area is another, and of course, you can titer.

    For my own dogs, I choose not to vaccinate for Bordatella, even though I do take them to shows and classes, as I know owner’s whose dogs have gotten the disease even when vaccinated, just as you mentioned above. I also do not get myself the flu shot for the same reason. If it covered every strain, maybe, but it doesn’t. Maybe if I had a very infirm dog, or a young pup, I might consider it, since they would be at higher risk of growing gravely ill if they contracted Bordatella.

    In NY, you only need to vaccinate for Rabies every 3 years, so that is exactly what I do.

    I titer for Parvo/Distemper, and although it is expensive, I do titer every year, as Toby’s levels actually came back low on one Distemper titer and he did need to be re-vaccinated. It’s an added expense, but we find a way to make it work. To me, its better than what may have happened if I didn’t find out his resistance was low….

    Lepto is the vaccine that I stress over. I currently do not get the vaccine for my dogs, because I have heard of many people who’s dogs got serious side effects and one died from the vaccine. However, we do have raccoons in our area. My dogs don’t swim in ponds however, and I don’t allow them to drink from puddles. It is a tough decision. And again, I rethink it every year, but currently we don’t do it.

    • Thank you Donna, I should have said our Rabies vaccination schedule is every three years as well.

      Leptos is the one vaccine I don’t stress over. We hike in the woods a LOT and have had raccoons in the neighbor’s yard, when they are hiking in the woods they sometimes drink from the little streams and I’m not sure how safe that water is.

      Bortetella…what can I say? The last time Sampson had it I was freaked out about Deliah, but surprisingly even though they drink from the same water bowl, she did not get it. Go figure!

      I’m so onboard with you regarding vaccines and preservatives. I try to be aware of what they (and I) eat and try to give them the best I can.

      In the end we each have to do what we think is best and live with the consequences. :-0

  12. I trust my vet because he explains everything. If he says something is necessary or unnecessary I believe him. He also comes to me, so I see him at home, which is nice.

    • That is wonderful! I think it is far less stressful for the dogs to be seen at home. And trusting your vet is important, which is why I vaccinate the way I do. 😉

  13. I’m late to the party (still catching up from some days away from the computer) but I just want to respond to your “vaccinating kids” comment. Right now there is a serious outbreak of measles occurring in Quebec. My kids are vaccinated for EVERYTHING, including chicken pox, swine flu, and HPV. As for the dog, I leave it up to the vet’s discretion, as I am totally ignorant. She does rabies and lepto. That’s it. But now, thanks to twobrowndawgs, I’ll ask about distemper. 🙂

    • We don’t care how late you are, you are always welcome!

      I really believe vaccinating is an individual choice for kids, parents and animals, you and only you can decide what risks you are willing to take.

      Personally, I will not get the flu shot because everytime I’ve had the shot; I’ve had the flu! 🙁 But it has to be an individual choice, that is all I am saying. 🙂

  14. I thought I would drop this off because it greeted me on the news this morning. You probably think Michigan is a cesspool of disease…lol. This is from MI State vet school, (which I hate to admit is a fab vet school). Anyway, it looks like we have to worry about lepto again. 🙁

    http://news.msu.edu/story/9952/

    • That’s awful! I wonder where these dogs are coming in contact with the virus? I hope you and the two brown dawgs stay safe!

      Along the same lines….Sampson has his vet appointment tonight so I hope to have some solid answers in a post over the weekend. 🙂

      • Hopefully you won’t have to worry about these kinds of diseases. I’ll look forward to hearing about Sampson’s appointment. 🙂

        I think maybe the issues are due to a wet summer/fall and rain run off. There are a lot of nasty rodents running around and the cities won’t (don’t have the money to) do anything to take care of them. We don’t have them, but my sis had rats in her yard…yuck. She lives in a nice neighborhood, but the people behind her were composting and well the rats can tunnel all over apparently.

        This is 2 Falls in a row with lepto as an issue. 🙁